And I'm saying you're wrong because you're looking at this game with an inherently biased view of realism that the game is not setting up. The game does not need to justify a harem as there is no rule stating it needs to function under real world logic. You are projecting your own standards onto fictional characters because they share surface level similarities that you consider to be "realistic" when the game has not established that as being the rule set which is a you problem. Go off what the game is actually telling you and not what you're just making up on your own based on your own assumptions from the obvious extrapolations you're doing right here. If you can't do that then that's on you. There is no internal consistency broken here. It's a very simple yes or no question. Does the game establish harems as not generally ok through the way characters act that would warrant an additional explanation on why these specific characters are ok with it in this scenario? If the answer to that question is no then there's zero need to actually justify the harem no matter how much you cope about how "realistic" the characters act. I really don't know what you're struggling to understand here. It's not complicated.
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Wut? This game is one of the most realistic ones on this entire website.
Dude becomes volleyball coach and has to deal with delinquents, there are literally real life situations that are very similar.
And who's stating that? The game is absolutely taking a more realistic approach than the vast majority of games on here in both scenario and character development aswell as personal relationships.Indexless said:
Of course there aren't any federally enforced rules or something inane as such, but there are unwritten rules that your narrative should have some logic to it. If you spend an entire novel, some 500 pages setting up a daily slice of life of a disgruntled coffee shop worker that wants some more spice in her life, MOST authors won't end the last 10 pages with "oh and by the way there's now magic and the world dies, because I said so and no one could stop me" type shit.
Genuinely just read what you typed and think for something like 10 seconds, I implore you.
You're right, I missed the part where they conjured a patronus while having coffee, silly me for even remotely implying that this game is realistic, I should be shot into the sun for my offenses.Indexless said:
It's honestly very ironic that you are doing exactly what you're accusing me of, so it seems that you're the one doing some projecting in this situation. I don't think many people who have played this game or are replying in this thread are waiting for the Death Star reveal and Darth Vader being back, because it isn't a game that has laid any foundations for fantasy elements.Indexless said:
I think the most telling part is that you don't think that pulling a harem situation out of the blue with the current context of the game and the characters is inherently broken internal consistency. I am genuinely wondering if you're somehow mixing this game up with another sports game because I cannot for the life of me fathom how your mind is making the connection of this game being not remotely realistic/pure fantasy and that there's no need to justify any interpersonal twists and turns when it would be very out of the order for the game.
I'm struggling to understand your inherent lack of understanding, that's what's going on here.
You think some things being realistic means EVERYTHING needs to be realistic which again is just you projecting your own standards onto fictional characters which is stupid cause a character can be realistic in how they act emotionally but also not have an issue with harems as this is a fictional story in a fictional setting and doesn't need to adhere to real life logic, it quite literally is that simple. You keep repeating like a broken record that this game is "realistic" as if it actually means anything but it really doesn't. Realism is not a singular wholistic concept. What you actually mean by realism is just your own standards which again is 90% just you seeing a few similarities in the characters and then filling in the blanks with projection as if the game has fully articulated these characters entire belief systems to you. You see some aspects of realism in the characters and so you assume that must also apply to the harem argument(the game never once actually said this) but you're just making that up. Hence as I said you can just assume the setting runs under different logic and I harken back to my example of complaining about magic and realism in a fantasy setting which is basically what you're doing. You're literally making a problem up for yourself and then getting mad about it. 2000 IQ play there buddy.
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You, quite literally, have stated that a game needs internal consistency. If you are making a game to be realistic, weaving in something that's entirely unrealistic or goes against what you've been designing thus far is the opposite of what you are stating.
I've never once stated that a character cannot be realistic and also not have an issue with harems, that's you making a strawman. What I am saying is that given the characters we see in this game that have all made it generally VERY clear that they mostly aren't fond of the MC at all and definitely aren't fond of eachother, throwing a harem out there isn't realistic when the game is focusing on realism.Indexless said:
So is Handmaiden's Tale, Silence of the Lambs, Hunt for Red October, Fight Club and the list goes on. Just because fiction doesn't have to be realistic doesn't mean that every piece of fiction is unrealistic and can just do whatever.Indexless said:
Again, this goes against your argument of having internal consistency, if you lay a foundation of realism and go into detail about the characters and what they are like, making those characters have an endgame that is the polar opposite of what's been shown isn't following 'internal consistency'.
Sure, there absolutely should be character development and I can see one or two of the characters potentially be alright with an open relationship after some build up, but not a full harem ending.
You mean how you keep repeating the value of internal consistency yet argue against it in the same post?Indexless said:
Brothermans, if you're writing a crime thriller, you're not going to bring in Falkor from Neverending Story as a cameo. Any and all authors, even amateur individuals writing, are all aware that there are unwritten rules when making a narrative that you can't really shit on unless you want to end up either alienating your fanbase or just making a very subpar story.
There are straight up no similarities between the characters. Do you just inherently not understand how a polyamorous or open relationship would function in an environment where you have to interact with eachother constantly?Indexless said:
They aren't strangers, these are teammates that, in the case of a full harem, are going to get banged by the person they're interested in.
As the characters are right now, there's straight up zero chance of that flying with all of them. It's so far removed from reality that I'd sooner believe Air Bud making a comeback in the game to become the best volleyball player on the planet.
The game has never once actually laid any foundations for a harem, or mentioned it either. What it has done is laid a foundation that 80% of the cast despise eachother and the MC.Indexless said:
Also yes, as you said, "internal consistency" must be maintained so if the game is aiming for realism, it needs to have justification for a harem. Just because you want to handwave it to satiate your fetish doesn't mean that it's the way it should be done.
I don't care about what gets your rocks off, I care about a coherent story.
And why would anyone assume that? It hasn't been stated, nor has any part of this game been fantastical in any stretch of the imagination, so assuming that magic could suddenly sprout out of someones ass "just because I said you should assume so" doesn't really work as an argument here buddy.Indexless said:
Line up some arguments that have been presented within the game that outlines why this game should be viewed as far removed from real world logic.
What I am doing is calling out why you're trying to force your fetish without any explanation into a game that hasn't had any groundwork laid for it or even mentioned it in the slightest.Indexless said:
Your entire argument is just entirely based in bad faith because you aren't arguing for the sake of the story's development, you are arguing for the sake of "this is how it should be because I find it hot and I don't want to read dialogue".
I mean your entire argument thus far has basically been "Oh this game just isn't realistic, and what the characters are being portrayed at isn't AKSHUALLY what they're like, trust me dude". Everyone here knows what the characters are like, it's been pretty obvious thus far and it's also pretty obvious that we're probably 5 updates away from anything remotely romantic for the vast majority of the cast, you infering that "it's not unbelievable that they will ALL be okay with a harem" isn't exactly supported by empirical evidence.
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"Grabs popcorn"
But seriously, this game is on the more realistic side of the spectrum. It is fully realistic? Hell no, but still is a good game that is more or less grounded into reality, with characters and personalities that you can find all over in the world. Now let's keep in mind that we have only 2 chapters released, so we have no idea what dev have planned in the future, or how he will add the harem path. We only can speculate and wait to see how it will play out.
But seriously, this game is on the more realistic side of the spectrum. It is fully realistic? Hell no, but still is a good game that is more or less grounded into reality, with characters and personalities that you can find all over in the world. Now let's keep in mind that we have only 2 chapters released, so we have no idea what dev have planned in the future, or how he will add the harem path. We only can speculate and wait to see how it will play out.
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Oh I fully agree, as I've been noting several times, as it stands right now there's simply no basis to assume that there would be a harem ending to begin with, and implementing something like that in a game like this with no preamble or discussion between the characters would just be.. frankly disappointing.
We just have to wait and see if the dev manages to implement it properly or not.
It just caught me offguard that this is somehow a hot take.
You're literally doing exactly what I said you're doing in the very next post after I called you out for doing it. I'll repeat myself then. Realism is not a singular wholistic concept. Your entire argument relies on this crux and it's faulty logic, some things can be realistic, other things not being realistic does not break any internal logic because "realism" is not a singular defined thing and there is no interlinked chain between these things that necessitate their connection that would break the foundation of reality if all these supposed aspects(that you made up) aren't all accounted for. Fuck real people have all kinds of different standards so there's obviously no such thing as a realistic metric for how characters should act, some real people are fine with harems so where is the "realism" broken here when it comes to these fictional ch- oh wait we already did that. PROJECTION.
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Agreed. I mean yes you can romance all the LI, but as I said already, not sure if here or in another topic, it doesn't mean it will end in a full harem or even a partial one. Beside, i don't even see the harem tag, just that is planned and we all know that plans not always happen. All we can do is wait and see if and how will be implemented, because if I saw right, there will be some rivalry between the girls, if I saw Eve face right when she met Saki
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Brothermans, I'm just not going to reply to this anymore because I've already pointed out plenty as to why your argument inherently is flawed and that you can't just say "oh they'll all be alright with a harem, you can totally see so from the characters" and that you seemingly have very limited understanding of what 'realism' entails from a narrative and literary perspective.
Good job dude, you won an argument on the internet which means you are right, congrats.
Yeah we both noted that in something like Bare Witness, you have the harem tag but it only applies to two characters. Some guy later pointed out that the dev (supposedly) has planned a full harem but I didn't see any source for it, but I am working off of that assumption simply.
And yeah, there are a lot of conflicting personalities within the characters. Like a LOT.
It's one of the reasons why the game is interesting because the characters all have very strong personalities and are well written, but that is also why seeing something as a 'full harem' pop up makes a lot of questions pop up.
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Oh for sure, characters here have pretty well defined personalities and i can add backstories, at least some of them. For example Fiona, play tough but inside is a softie (at least is what it feels towards her).
And yeah, we need a few more tags like "partial harem" and such to have a better idea what to expect from the game. I saw that comment with the full harem, but if you don't bring proof, no one will believe it. I think he said on itch? let me check it quick.
After a quick scan there, can't seem to find anything about that.
Bro I never even said anything close to that what are you even talking about? My point is simply that caring about this shit is dumb. Who the hell needs suspension of disbelief when playing a wish fulfilment harem porn game? If you think a harem is unrealistic then like 7 hot woman all falling for the same guy is also unrealistic. You aren't going to suddenly make a harem realistic and believable just by leaping through warped logic trying to justify it so why even bother trying in the first place? I don't even know what hill you're trying to die on here anymore.
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Let's all calm down now and let this "die", we all said what we had to say, so let's move on shall we?
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Yeah I think Fiona is an example of a typical narrative trope where a character is portrayed as much worse than they actually are in order to influence a persons initial response to them and then gradually reveal more about them and hopefully change the readers mind. It's like a reversal of expectations except in character form.
Of course I might be wrong but it sure points towards it, given that she was basically insufferable in the first chapter and we're already given a glimpse of a crack in the mould by chapter 2.
Also yeah, IIRC f95 was working on updating the tag system but I have no idea where it's at right now.
I was meaning to check out where the source was but I had honestly forgotten about it until we started talking about it just now.
Just to point out, this is exactly why your argument is inherently flawed, because it isn't portrayed as a wish fulfilment harem porn game. As I pointed out, if the dev hadn't mentioned the tag being in the works, no one here would've automatically assumed that it was going to be a harem game.
Wut? Did you just not go to high school or college?Indexless said:
Like half of my female friends in high school all had the hots for one dude, I even had 4 girls have the hots for me without me even realizing it.
Out of all the things you could've attempted to call out as "unrealistic", this is it? Really?
The irony is palpable.Indexless said:
But yeah, entirely done replying now, just had to reply to this because it honestly boggled my mind.
Kudos man, you won another argument and are in the right yet again.
Sure I'm gonna go jack off to Cabin by the Lake cause I haven't played the new patch yet
You're a silly guy
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Have fun my guy, it's a good game.
Eh, WVM would be a better call for that, and this isn't exactly WVM, but it doesn't matter. Enjoy yourself.Indexless said:
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I admit I'd prefer a more "streamlined" game/story with relevant solo paths. I wouldn't mind replaying it 5 or 6 times. I'm a harem enjoyer as much as the next guy, WVM or Grandma's house are fine, albeit too much, but I don't view this game as such. Maybe it'll be, we'll see.
Obviously, I'm sure at this stage of the game, more than 90% of enjoyers of this game are gunning for all the girls, I'm one of them. But I wouldn't mind if there were some penalties for it at some point, for the story to stay a wholesome story about sports, with its hardships, friendships, rivalries, highs and lows and every other sport tropes. Basically it could be Haikyuu levels of good in the genre. Doesn't need to be deep, just entertaining.
It would probably extend development time a bit so I don't believe it'll be like this, but oh well, guess it's fine, enjoying the game a lot so far.
Obviously, I'm sure at this stage of the game, more than 90% of enjoyers of this game are gunning for all the girls, I'm one of them. But I wouldn't mind if there were some penalties for it at some point, for the story to stay a wholesome story about sports, with its hardships, friendships, rivalries, highs and lows and every other sport tropes. Basically it could be Haikyuu levels of good in the genre. Doesn't need to be deep, just entertaining.
It would probably extend development time a bit so I don't believe it'll be like this, but oh well, guess it's fine, enjoying the game a lot so far.
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The dev in discord replied several times about the endings. One of them is a full harem
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Atleast there's some source being posted behind it. Still can't really imagine how a full harem ending would work but I guess we'll wait and see.
Cheers for posting it.
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